oothlagre

Toyota and Honda have had hybrids for about 3 years now. My friend has a
Prius. He got one of the first ones available.

"Peter Eberl" <pje15@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10b06sg5flaku96@corp.supernews.com...
> Kidd you not...2 years tops..Hybrid drive vehicles are in development
> stage..no idea if Honda or Toyota drive versions...at the same time I'm
> bugging dealership to see if Subaru will drop a V6 into the Forester
> anytime soon. I've got a Forester and a H6 VDC Sedan that really ROCKS
>
> --
> Subaru Fan
>
>

TG

Have you been hiding under a rock? I'm thinking 5 years or so is when the
first mass produced Honda insight went on sale. The hybrids have not been a
big deal though....The insight and Prius are extremely ugly and the insight
doesn't have any room, the Civic is nice and a fairly normal car but what's
the point? The economy isn't that great.
Now if Mitsubishi rolls out the all-wheel-drive Eclipse hybrid in '06 I
WILL get exited. TG

"Peter Eberl" <pje15@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10b06sg5flaku96@corp.supernews.com...
> Kidd you not...2 years tops..Hybrid drive vehicles are in development
> stage..no idea if Honda or Toyota drive versions...at the same time I'm
> bugging dealership to see if Subaru will drop a V6 into the Forester
> anytime soon. I've got a Forester and a H6 VDC Sedan that really ROCKS
>
> --
> Subaru Fan
>
>

Dave Null Sr.

On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:59:47 GMT, "TG" <ab7rs@arrl.netnospam> wrote in
news:10b1pp25e1udk28@corp.supernews.com:

> Have you been hiding under a rock? I'm thinking 5 years or so is when the
> first mass produced Honda insight went on sale. The hybrids have not been a
> big deal though....The insight and Prius are extremely ugly and the insight
> doesn't have any room, the Civic is nice and a fairly normal car but what's
> the point? The economy isn't that great.

Using today's average gas price here, the typical 20k kms per year
and city consumption (the hybrid forte), yearly gas costs are:

Civic Si (gas only) $1456
Civic Hybrid $892
Insight $710
Prius $728

I would say the Prius (or any hybrid) makes lots of economic sense.


Gas today here is 91¢/litre
Consumption, city, from CanadianDriver.com
Civic Si 8.0l/100km
Insight 3.9l/100km
Civic Hybrid 4.9l/100km
Prius 4.0l/100km

Charles Perry

"Dave Null Sr." <lrowoy@ShNotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94F298E7D5093lrowoy@66.11.168.198...
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:59:47 GMT, "TG" <ab7rs@arrl.netnospam> wrote in
> news:10b1pp25e1udk28@corp.supernews.com:
>
<snip>
> Using today's average gas price here, the typical 20k kms per year
> and city consumption (the hybrid forte), yearly gas costs are:
>
> Civic Si (gas only) $1456
> Civic Hybrid $892
> Insight $710
> Prius $728
>
> I would say the Prius (or any hybrid) makes lots of economic sense.
>

You may have missed a few recent articles in US newspapers regarding
hybrids. It seems they get MUCH worse mileage than their EPA ratings. The
EPA tests do not accurately measure the true fuel consumption of a hybrid
vehicle.

Charles Perry P.E.

Walt Kienzle

"Dave Null Sr." <lrowoy@ShNotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94F298E7D5093lrowoy@66.11.168.198...
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:59:47 GMT, "TG" <ab7rs@arrl.netnospam> wrote in
> news:10b1pp25e1udk28@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > Have you been hiding under a rock? I'm thinking 5 years or so is when
the
> > first mass produced Honda insight went on sale. The hybrids have not
been a
> > big deal though....The insight and Prius are extremely ugly and the
insight
> > doesn't have any room, the Civic is nice and a fairly normal car but
what's
> > the point? The economy isn't that great.
>
> Using today's average gas price here, the typical 20k kms per year
> and city consumption (the hybrid forte), yearly gas costs are:
>
> Civic Si (gas only) $1456
> Civic Hybrid $892
> Insight $710
> Prius $728
>
> I would say the Prius (or any hybrid) makes lots of economic sense.
>
>
> Gas today here is 91¢/litre
> Consumption, city, from CanadianDriver.com
> Civic Si 8.0l/100km
> Insight 3.9l/100km
> Civic Hybrid 4.9l/100km
> Prius 4.0l/100km
>

From your ****ysis it looks like this type of vehicle makes sense where you
live. I'm in the US and this past week E-85 fuel was on a promotional sale
of US$0.85 per gallon. At this price, I believe that the annual fuel cost
for an FFV Ford Taurus would be lower than the Insight. Admittedly, E-85 is
not usually priced that low, but an FFV (Flexible Fuel Vehicle) Taurus is
much more readily available and is more spacious than any of the Hybrids you
listed. I believe that the Taurus would have lower initial and maintenance
costs too. Too bad Subaru doesn't do FFV, Bi-Fuel CNG or LPG (the solution
I like the best), or Hybrid.

I realize that your reply is based on the previous poster's claim that "the
economy isn't that great" and that statement has to be put into context.
For you, that statement might not be true. For him - and me - his statement
is very true. Here is why: Even with what are historically high prices for
gasoline (in my area it is actually E-10 fuel that is sold as regular
petrol), it still is substantially lower priced than $0.91/liter. The
recent "outrageously high" price would be about US$0.54/liter, and during
bargain times it would be about half that price. With that low a price for
fuel, even for what we consider high priced gas, it would likely take longer
than the life of the car for the fuel cost savings to pay back the
additional cost of a Hybrid or most any other alternate fuel vehicle. E-85
is the exception, because manufacturers are not charging extra for this
feature. Unfortunately most of them aren't doing a very good job of
advertising its availability.

Walt Kienzle

Fruit Pie the Magician

In article <2hcjj0FaujecU1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Charles Perry" <pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com> wrote:

> You may have missed a few recent articles in US newspapers regarding
> hybrids. It seems they get MUCH worse mileage than their EPA ratings. The
> EPA tests do not accurately measure the true fuel consumption of a hybrid
> vehicle.
>
> Charles Perry P.E.

Note that they're still getting the best mileage overall. The big
problem is that Toyota, et al, CANNOT use realistic numbers -- they are
required by law to display and advertise the EPA numbers and as you
note, the EPA's testing gives erroneous numbers for hybrids.

-FPtM

Rick Courtright

"Dave Null Sr." wrote:

> I would say the Prius (or any hybrid) makes lots of economic sense.

Don't forget the cost of batteries! I understand Toyota recently upped
their warranty on the battery pack to 100k miles to help entice people
to buy the Prius. Why? The article I read said the battery pack alone is
$2000 US. Something to think about...

Rick

Rick Courtright

Charles Perry wrote:

> You may have missed a few recent articles in US newspapers regarding
> hybrids. It seems they get MUCH worse mileage than their EPA ratings. The
> EPA tests do not accurately measure the true fuel consumption of a hybrid

Hi,

FWIW, a Los Angeles TV station recently did a head to head with a Honda
Insight and a Toyota Prius to see what they would do in a typical "drive
around SoCal" kinda loop of freeway, city, etc. with lots of traffic all
the way. At the end of the test, the Honda returned ~55 mpg, the Toyota
~59 mpg. Don't know how that compares to EPA specs, but we can't forget
where "YMMV" originally came from!

Rick

TG

Factor in the Toyota Echo and other high fuel economy gas only models that
cost 1/2 as much as the hybrids....initial and overall cost are important,
not just how much you save on gas. TG

"Dave Null Sr." <lrowoy@ShNotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94F298E7D5093lrowoy@66.11.168.198...
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 17:59:47 GMT, "TG" <ab7rs@arrl.netnospam> wrote in
> news:10b1pp25e1udk28@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > Have you been hiding under a rock? I'm thinking 5 years or so is when
the
> > first mass produced Honda insight went on sale. The hybrids have not
been a
> > big deal though....The insight and Prius are extremely ugly and the
insight
> > doesn't have any room, the Civic is nice and a fairly normal car but
what's
> > the point? The economy isn't that great.
>
> Using today's average gas price here, the typical 20k kms per year
> and city consumption (the hybrid forte), yearly gas costs are:
>
> Civic Si (gas only) $1456
> Civic Hybrid $892
> Insight $710
> Prius $728
>
> I would say the Prius (or any hybrid) makes lots of economic sense.
>
>
> Gas today here is 91¢/litre
> Consumption, city, from CanadianDriver.com
> Civic Si 8.0l/100km
> Insight 3.9l/100km
> Civic Hybrid 4.9l/100km
> Prius 4.0l/100km
>

TG

The Toyota Echo can be had for under $10,000 at 38 MPG combined.
The Volkswagen Golf and Jetta TDI models get 32/41 respectively (combined
city and hwy) and cost thousands less than the hybrids. Hybrids are getting
better and I like the development of new choices but they are certainly not
answer for the vast majority of consumers at this point. TG

"Fruit Pie the Magician" <no.email.address@email.blows.com> wrote in message
news:no.email.address-75CB10.14543623052004@news-60.giganews.com...
> In article <2hcjj0FaujecU1@uni-berlin.de>,
> "Charles Perry" <pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You may have missed a few recent articles in US newspapers regarding
> > hybrids. It seems they get MUCH worse mileage than their EPA ratings.
The
> > EPA tests do not accurately measure the true fuel consumption of a
hybrid
> > vehicle.
> >
> > Charles Perry P.E.
>
> Note that they're still getting the best mileage overall. The big
> problem is that Toyota, et al, CANNOT use realistic numbers -- they are
> required by law to display and advertise the EPA numbers and as you
> note, the EPA's testing gives erroneous numbers for hybrids.
>
> -FPtM