Peter Eberl

Kidd you not...2 years tops..Hybrid drive vehicles are in development
stage..no idea if Honda or Toyota drive versions...at the same time I'm
bugging dealership to see if Subaru will drop a V6 into the Forester
anytime soon. I've got a Forester and a H6 VDC Sedan that really ROCKS

--
Subaru Fan

Carl 1 Lucky Texan

Plus, in hot states like Texas, if you use the air conditioner the gas
engine is 'on' almost continually anyway - further reducing the benefits
or the system.
BTW- is there an option on either the Toy or Honda for overnight battery
recharging from the grid?

Carl
1 Lucky Texan


Ignignokt wrote:
> *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
> Dave Null Sr. wrote:
>
>>Using today's average gas price here, the typical 20k kms per year
>>and city consumption (the hybrid forte), yearly gas costs are:
>>
>>Civic Si (gas only) $1456
>>Civic Hybrid $892
>>Insight $710
>>Prius $728
>>
>
>
>
> Hybrids are most effective in city driving -- lots of stop-and-go. This is
> the environment where internal combustion engines are least efficient. Here
> in the US most people (not all) tend to drive longer distances at constant
> speeds. I know I do. Hybrids lose their advantage in such long-distance
> driving. This is why they're so much more popular in Japan and congested
> parts of Europe than here in the United States. I'm not trying to dismiss
> the benefits of hybrids, just to put those benefits into a realistic
> context. The benefit a particular person will see from a hybrid depends a
> great deal on the type of driving he does. And my mother owns a Prius, so
> I'm not talking *completely* out of my butt here.
>
> - Greg Reed
>


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

Dominic Richens

Screw hybrids and their costly batteries, go Diesel:

Dave Null Sr. wrote:
>
> Using today's average gas price here, the typical 20k kms per year
> and city consumption (the hybrid forte), yearly gas costs are:
>
> Civic Si (gas only) $1456
> Civic Hybrid $892
> Insight $710
> Prius $728

VW Jetta Diesel $600 (US)

> I would say the Prius (or any hybrid) makes lots of economic sense.
>
>
> Gas today here is 91¢/litre
> Consumption, city, from CanadianDriver.com
> Civic Si 8.0l/100km
> Insight 3.9l/100km
> Civic Hybrid 4.9l/100km
> Prius 4.0l/100km

Jetta Diesel 5.1l/100km

--
Dominic Richens | dominic@alumni.uottawa.ca
"If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"

Dave Null Sr.

On Tue, 25 May 2004 19:51:38 GMT, "Dominic Richens" <knob@storm.ca> wrote
in news:c9084f$6i5$1@news.storm.ca:

> Screw hybrids and their costly batteries, go Diesel:
>
> Dave Null Sr. wrote:
>>
>> Using today's average gas price here, the typical 20k kms per year
>> and city consumption (the hybrid forte), yearly gas costs are:
>>
>> Civic Si (gas only) $1456
>> Civic Hybrid $892
>> Insight $710
>> Prius $728
>
> VW Jetta Diesel $600 (US)

So more like $824 but

>
>> I would say the Prius (or any hybrid) makes lots of economic sense.
>>
>>
>> Gas today here is 91¢/litre
>> Consumption, city, from CanadianDriver.com
>> Civic Si 8.0l/100km
>> Insight 3.9l/100km
>> Civic Hybrid 4.9l/100km
>> Prius 4.0l/100km
>
> Jetta Diesel 5.1l/100km

Consumption is listed at 5.6l/100km

So $905. Plus maybe a higher price.

And diesel in North America is still dirty
compared to European.

Diesel does have a big edge for longevity
and proven track record.

Steve Bukosky

I bought the Forester over the Honda CR-V because of the gas economy,
among other things. So, I am interested in economy. At this time, it
gets the same or less mileage than my 94 Pontiac Bonneville. But, I
wanted a wagon and AWD.

I've thought about hi-breds but as my miles pile up on the highway,
question what the economy versus payback would be then. Currently, I
think diesel is the way to go. I might consider a Jetta wagon. I find
the AWD without locking axel is ineffective when the going gets tough.
Why would Subaru put limited slip on the Outback and not the Forester
where such a feature would be expected?

Sorry about changing the topic but hopefully Subaru corporate is
reading and understands some catching up is needed. I'd love a turbo
but will not pay for premium fuel. So, if I can't have a snorting
power wagon, I want fuel economy.

Ignignokt

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Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
> Plus, in hot states like Texas, if you use the air conditioner the gas
> engine is 'on' almost continually anyway - further reducing the
> benefits or the system.
> BTW- is there an option on either the Toy or Honda for overnight
> battery recharging from the grid?

Not in the Prius. I don't believe the Honda has this ability either, but I
don't have first-hand knowledge of that car like I do of the Prius. BTW, my
folks both absolutely love my Mom's Prius. My Dad has a really nice Dodge
Caravan, but unless they have more than four people to carry, they *always*
take the Prius on all their trips. Now that my Dad's retiring, I expect
that his Caravan will probably get driven something very close to never.

- Greg Reed

--
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2004 Subaru Forester Turbo 5-Speed




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Ignignokt

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Dave Null Sr. wrote:

> And diesel in North America is still dirty
> compared to European.

When I watched a Jetta with "TDI" on the trunk pull out in front of me
yesterday (illegally), I rolled my eyes in anticipation of having to smell
diesel exhaust for the next 8 miles (the likely distance before I'd have an
opportunity to pass). I neither smelled nor saw anything in those 8 miles
that would lead me to suspect the car had a diesel in it. Diesel engines
have come a long way since the black plume-spewing 1978 Rabbit my friend
Mark sometimes drives. But he gets 45 mpg in it, and pays about 70 cents
less per gallon for his fuel than I do -- all this being US dollars and
gallons. And miles. (Does anybody else still use miles?)

- Greg Reed

--
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2004 Subaru Forester Turbo 5-Speed




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Ignignokt

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Steve Bukosky wrote:
> I find
> the AWD without locking axel is ineffective when the going gets tough.
> Why would Subaru put limited slip on the Outback and not the Forester
> where such a feature would be expected?

My XT has a limited slip differential on the rear axle, though I'm not sure
of exactly what variety. Since you've indicated a distate for the turbo,
you might want to check Subaru.com to find out whether the XS also has a
limited slip. I know it has many of the XT's other upgrades (but not the
turbo).

- Greg Reed

--
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2004 Subaru Forester Turbo 5-Speed




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Top Sirloin

TG wrote:

> The Toyota Echo can be had for under $10,000 at 38 MPG combined.
> The Volkswagen Golf and Jetta TDI models get 32/41 respectively (combined
> city and hwy) and cost thousands less than the hybrids.

And the TDI's would get even better numbers if
they had a CVT.


--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com

Steve Bukosky

On Thu, 27 May 2004 04:19:18 -0400, "Ignignokt"
<inet_user@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Steve Bukosky wrote:
>> I find
>> the AWD without locking axel is ineffective when the going gets tough.
>> Why would Subaru put limited slip on the Outback and not the Forester
>> where such a feature would be expected?
>
>My XT has a limited slip differential on the rear axle, though I'm not sure
>of exactly what variety. Since you've indicated a distate for the turbo,

Yes, I might be out of date with my objection. My Forester is a 2002
and I think I got caught up in the AWD sales hype. In fairness, I
have taken it through some deep snow and had a blast. However, I once
got stuck where only two diagonal wheels would move. I used to have
that problem plowing airport runways with an old Jeep CJ5. I learned
the importance of axel locks then.